Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Hobbes in The Dark Knight


I’m willing to bet more than 80% of the classmates in out Political Science class have seen The Dark Knight, if not at least one of Christopher Nolan’s epic trilogy. If you haven’t seen any of them, then you should really stop reading this and watch the trilogy, by any means necessary.

Every man for himself.
Last week, Professor Manty discussed in class about Thomas Hobbes and his work, the Leviathan. Hobbes was a famous English philosopher back in the seventeenth century and is known for his social contract theory. In the Leviathan, Hobbes believed in an absolute monarchy, where the citizens of that nation would relinquish their rights that they were born with and give it to the monarch, in return for a guaranteed protection. That is essentially what Hobbes social contract theory means. He also believed deep down, people were selfish and would disregard the safety and beliefs of others to be able to pursue their own self-interests. If Hobbes were alive during this century, he’d say it’s a “dog eat dog” and “every man for themselves” world we live in. He believed that the role of the monarch, or government, was to keep law and order since he did not believe people were capable of governing or protecting themselves. Last but not least, since Hobbes believed that people had no rights and gave it up at birth for protection, they couldn’t rebel or protest if the government were abusing their powers.

Hobbes stated that the state of nature of man is going to be violent and we, as a race, are naturally fearful. We want to avoid death and do not wish to die young. I don’t know about you, but dying young is my first fear in life.

"A world without rules"
In the film The Dark Knight, Batman is the masked vigilante who doesn’t follow the rules of the law enforcement by making sure the citizens of Gotham follow the law, and punish those who break it, even though he is also not following the laws. He prevents the city from falling into chaos, just like he did in the first movie Batman Begins by stopping Ra’s al Ghul from delivering the bomb to Wayne Towers that would’ve brought the city into ruins. The Joker on the other hand is complicated to say the least. He just wants to see Gotham in ruins for no reason behind it. You know a bad guy is really bad when he doesn’t have a personal agenda or vendetta for the destruction he wants to bring.

In a scene near the end of the movie, the Joker tells Batman: “To them, you're just a freak, like me. They need you right now. But when they don't, they'll cast you out, like a leper. See, their morals, their code... it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you, when the chips are down, these... these civilized people? They'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve.” What Joker says correlates with what Hobbes said that deep down, people would disregard others for their own self-interests.

A scene that gives an example of this was the boat scene where you had all the convicts on one boat, and civilians on the other. The Joker provided each of them the detonators for the other boats bomb, which I believe is an example of Hobbes description that people care more about their own safety than others. But at the end thankfully, neither of them pressed it and Batman took down the Joker. Both the Joker and Batman instills fear into the citizens of Gotham, with Batman instilling fear to prevent them for doing bad things or they will be punished, while the Joker enforces fear for the heck of it.

The question is though, who would you rather see in the alleyway? 

5 comments:

  1. This is an extremely fascinating comparison of the State of Nature as depicted by Hobbes and a fictitious example that we can all resonate with. The truly interesting about this example is examining Batman and the Joker as the barons of the power and the guardians of the peace and stability. Both Batman and the Joker, as they claim as opposed to their ulterior motives, strive to relieve Gothem from reverting to the Sate of Nature. Yet, this example shows that there are two avenues to resolving the state of nature. A heroic figure, such as Batman, can gain the trust of his compatriots and harness their relinquished trust to benefit society. Therefore, Batman utilized the trust he earned by protecting the city and looking out for the utilitarian good. The Joker, on the other hand, uses the power he gains through gaining the faith of his people to achieve his ulterior motive of domination. However, Joker is not working alone. He assembled a team to take over Gothem. This hierarchy seems awfully similar to a form of oligarchy--rule by few over many. The Joker's goal was not to preserve the peace of the people, rather it was to diminish the power of the many so the few could have complete power.

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  2. Steven after working on this Batman project with you in our discussion I thought we made some great points. Batman was a pure vigilante and had to save Gotham. The Joker put the city of Gotham into a state of nature that was very similar to Hobbes. Batman had to stop this state of nature. Hobbes state of nature had no rules. No morality existed and the city was in a state of war. Also, in this boat scene from the link above, the civilians have to have a covenant with themselves and also the prisoners in the other boat. Batman is a great example of Hobbes state of nature. Even better, the third movie, The Batman Rises, Batman is missing and Bane is completely destroying Gotham. Batman is currently hated and not wanted by the citizens of Gotham and he is forced to break laws to do what he thinks is just. The Batman Series in general displays Hobbes state of nature.

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  3. Steven,

    This is a great post to depict Hobbes's state of nature in the Dark Knight. This movie is such an accurate picture of what Thomas Hobbes would think a state of nature looked like. Multiple parts of this movie, even the boat scene that you presented, were based entirely on Hobbes idea of self-interest. Hobbes felt that people have almost greedy desires and would do almost anything to take care of these desires no matter what the cost is to other people. The boat clip that you picked really portrays this, as you even stated that people care more about their own safety than others. Even Hobbes stated that it is "every man, against every man." Although this makes human nature sound incredibly selfish, it is, and this is what Hobbes wanted to show and you did a great job expressing it through the movie. I also found your post very interesting because I had also posted about depicting a Hobbesian state of nature in a movie but I chose the Hunger Games. It is called "Why do we still talk about the STATE OF NATURE?" if you would like to read it.

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  4. Steven,

    I am a fellow Dark Knight fan and am really interested in how you compare the movie to Hobbes. I totally understand your point and the connections that you made. But there's one account that I must disagree with. You write that the boat scene proves Hobbes's State of Nature because people are self interested. I thought this scene displayed the exact opposite sentiment. Yes, there were people on either boat in favor of detonating the bomb. Even a majority of the civilians voted in favor of it. These guys were all about their own safety, and that proves your point. But no one detonated a bomb on either boat. The joker tells them "The people on the other boat might not be so nobel," and that sets up Hobbes's Sate of Nature argument. He's clearly trying to get one boat to blow up another by encouraging them to be self-interested. But that's why this scene proves Hobbes wrong. The convicts end up throwing the detonator out the window because they refuse to kill the civilians, and even after a vote the civilian boat couldn't force themselves to become killers. Both boats considered blowing each other up, but they never did. They had the chance to look out for themselves by killing the people on the other boat, but they refused. They couldn't even when they rationally decided they wanted to. Maybe THIS is our state of nature. Maybe we really are looking out for each other. Maybe Hobbes was just a little to cynical to apply to this scene.

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  5. Steven,

    I absolutely love the comparison. I loved the correlation between Hobbes state of nature and the Joker. I think the boat scene portrays the state of nature perfectly.

    Lisa, I am a strong advocate of Hobbes state of nature. I don't think Hobbes was being cynical, I think he was being realistic in seeing people for who we really are. In the boat scene, majority of the civilians wanted to blow up the other boat. That just shows that majority of people were self interested and were afraid to die. They would rather save themselves first before any one else. I am not indicating that it's right or wrong but I think it's in human nature to put yourself before others. For the minority of the civilians that voted not to blow up the other boat, it was still out of self interest. They did not want to feel guilt. They did not want another persons death to be on their hands. At the end, even though they didn't want to kill the prisoners they did it out of self interest. It was to make themselves feel better.

    The Joker was right.

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