From the time we are little, the books, TV shows, and movies we watch as kids teach us how men and women are supposed to act. I distinctly recall my sister's eighth birthday party, where she received a dress-up wedding dress, to her happiness. I was the one who coaxed her into putting it on and having our next door neighbor "marry" her. This shows that from a young age I, as well as my sister, thought this was the way a marriage proposal had to be.
As for movies, I grew up watching the The Wedding Singer, a movie about a heartbroken wedding singer, Robbie, (Adam Sandler) who falls in love with his new (and engaged) co-worker, Julia (Drew Barrymore). As the story goes, just before her wedding, he makes it onto her airplane flight to profess his love for her in an endearing song, and of course, she says yes. This made me think, how would the movie have been different if she had told him she wanted to marry him? It surely wouldn't have had the wonderful scene that follows:
As for movies, I grew up watching the The Wedding Singer, a movie about a heartbroken wedding singer, Robbie, (Adam Sandler) who falls in love with his new (and engaged) co-worker, Julia (Drew Barrymore). As the story goes, just before her wedding, he makes it onto her airplane flight to profess his love for her in an endearing song, and of course, she says yes. This made me think, how would the movie have been different if she had told him she wanted to marry him? It surely wouldn't have had the wonderful scene that follows:
As for my parents, I know they didn't have the typical man-on-one-knee proposal. In fact, my mom was the one who brought up marriage. She knew she wanted to be with my dad, but he hadn't popped the question and she was getting impatient. I wouldn't want to be in the position of asking, being the female in the relationship, but I do believe that sometimes it is necessary. What's a girl to do if her guy doesn't get the hint? Wait forever for something that may never come to fruition?
Your post was very interesting! I would definitely agree that the concept that men have to propose is one that society has created. There isn't anything biological that gives men a legitimate reason to propose to women instead of women proposing to men. Asking someone to spend the rest of your life with you has nothing to do with what you look like or what body parts you have. It's a pretty ridiculous societal norm if you think about it. It reminds me of all the other societal norms between men and women in relationships, like how the guy always has to pay. Obviously, it's chivalrous and a nice gesture, but it's not like there's a legitimate reason why the guy's supposed to pay. There's nothing biological about boys that implies that they should always pay on the first date. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's definitely not a justified action
ReplyDeleteSometimes, I also wonder how these societal norms came into effect because somewhere, someone had to come up with them. What criteria was used to set them? I wonder if the people that began them had clear, logical reasons for doing what they did that we don't understand now. Maybe, even though men proposing to women and paying for the first date appear to have no reasonable foundation, they actually do have some sort of concrete explanation; it just either applied to another time period, or we can't understand the reasoning in our society.
Although being a woman I do like chivalry, I don't think it's necessary for a guy to pay for everything, especially if both the man and woman have jobs. Why should a man have to spend his hard-earned money on a woman and not receive the same treatment in return? Similarly in a marriage where both people work, a man doesn't pay for everything; the costs of expenses are shared. I think this keeps a relationship equal because both people are contributing financially. I'm not sure if it's thinking too far back, but long ago in the past, it was the men who went out hunting, and the women stayed back. I believe that evolved to men being the bread-winners, while women tended to the children and did housework. In the past, and even now sometimes, women are portrayed as meek and helpless, and maybe this is why it has always traditionally been the role of men to take care of the women. This may have been the cause of men taking charge of proposing and paying for dates, as well as similar situations. Although I only have a women’s perspective on this issue, it also may be a matter of pride for men. They want their friends, as well as the general public, to see that they can provide for a woman. Lastly, I had the idea that part of the men proposing to women concept and paying for things is that women enjoy it and that men are happy to please their girlfriends, fiancés, and spouses. I think most women see chivalry as a sign of affection; maybe this has led to this gender role becoming the norm.
DeleteLinda,
ReplyDeleteI recall asking this very question to our GSI that one time in discussion. As far as women proposing to men though, I do not believe in it. It just doesn’t seem right. Call me old fashion, but I believe it’s the males’ duty to propose to his love, and if he’s too nervous to do it, then he should honestly get help from his friends and family. It’s been like that since the dawn of time where the male proposes to the female. My father did it, his father did it, and so on. Why is it that in the Bachelorette TV series, in the last episode where it’s down to two males, the person that she chooses ends up popping the question to her? I’ve always been confused by that because if you have both males buying a ring and one doesn’t get chosen, what does he do with that ring now? Shouldn’t it be the bachelorette to propose to one of the guys at the end? I’m not saying I watch the Bachelorette, my mom and sister do and they crank the volume to max where I know what’s going on without watching it.
I honestly don’t think it’s right for the female to propose to the male. Call me old fashion, but I still believe in chivalry. My family is old fashion as well and they wouldn’t approve my future wife being the one to make the move. I’m not a sexist or anything, I support the female movement for equality, I wrote the paper about Female DJ’s, but when it comes to who should pop the question, it should be the man. I agree with the commentator before me, a male shouldn’t have to always pay for the meal; my girlfriend and I take turns every time we go out to eat.
Being a male I personally would not allow a woman to propose to me. I do not have anything against the concept, but it just does not seem right. In a marriage men are known to be the providers, and the head of the family. For a woman to ask a man to marry her is almost equivalent to her asking him to take care of her. This does not mean I believe woman who ask men to marry them are "gold-diggers". The power of women in todays's society is rapidly shifting and they no longer have the diminished role any longer. There are just some duties that I believe are only fit for a man to carry out. If you look into the media you do not find many women artist making art (music, poems, paintings) about wanting asking a man to marry them. Likewise, one could easily name hundreds of art pieces by men asking for marriage to a women. It may be a sense of pride or ego most men carry that prevents me from completly agreeing to this concept. What is the reaction if the guy says no? Marriage is a huge commitment, and should be taken very seriously. Does she just leave him or if she really loves him wait around and ask again like some men have done. Again I have nothing personally against women asking men for their hand in marriage, but I will conclude with it does not seem normal saying it.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the reason why this concept doesn't seem right to you is because it has been a long-standing tradition for men to propose to women, but traditions can change, can't they? Why would this duty be fit for only a man if the power of women is increasing? You are correct about media--not many women artists bring up women proposing to men in their art. Our society is very media-oriented, so maybe if examples of this occurred in music, TV, and movies, more women and men would find this an acceptable thing to do. I have to say from reading the comments from the guys, it seems that pride is a big factor. Maybe pride will always get in the way of men feeling comfortable with women proposing, but I think that if this became a more acceptable idea in society, men would have less of a problem with it. As to if the man says no, that's part of the risk of proposing. Does a man not have the risk of the woman saying no? Although you would not allow a woman to propose to you, it is possible there are other guys out there who wouldn’t have a problem with it. In some relationships, women may make all the moves, while the guy is more on the shy side. Personally, I believe what it comes down to is that each relationship is different and that they all operate in different ways. I think the concept of who should propose should be decided by the couple, not by society.
DeleteIf we were to see a women propose to man back in the day, it would be very odd. I don’t think it has ever been a bad thing or frowned upon, it is just something that we have always traditionally thought (man proposes to a women). It is hard to break tradition. Just like stay at home dads, that is viewed against tradition. That is not a bad thing; there is nothing wrong with men staying home and women working. That is just a situation that we aren’t used to seeing.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong with women proposing, or stay at home dads. People just aren’t used to seeing it. In the future I believe it will be more and more common. Now a days we are seeing more stay at home dads and women proposing. I think it will become more of a status que in the future.
The bottom line for women proposing to men is that it simply isn’t common. But there are many legitimate reasons for women to propose. The men may be shy and he may be scared. I agree with you that if you want to propose; you’re a girl, go right ahead. It will be more common in the future!
I think that the prospect of women being able to propose is an exciting step towards equality between men and women and the flexibility of their roles within a relationship. This post is very interesting in that it made me really consider where this tradition came from. I believe biological basis of the male's role as the proposer came out of the fact that he does not possess the sexual limitations a woman does. Men have unlimited sperm whereas women have an extremely limited number of eggs. Their fertility window is shorter, and they can be pregnant by only one man at a time. Alternatively, men can impregnate an unlimited amount of women at a time. From that perspective, it seems the responsibility and choice of the man to chose and commit to a single mate in a more verbal, and once theologically based way. I completely agree however that as marriage strays further and further from religion, and there are an increasing number of same-sex relationships without pre-conceived gender roles defined within them, it is worth reconsidering and restructuring our idea of marriage and how it is agreed upon.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting post, what's even more interesting are the comments. It's interesting seeing that people still feel so strong about having the man propose. With the diminishing gender roles, it would seem that a women proposing to the man would be more accepted. I think that one of the reasons why the man was only known to propose was because back then the man was usually the breadwinner, therefor, he felt that it was his responsibility to take initiative because it was his job to take care of the family. Men want a dominate complex and along with that complex comes along proposing to women, because men want to have the first word. I think men feel threatened by the idea of women proposing to them because they feel emasculated.
ReplyDeleteHaving the man propose is more of a tradition. Traditions break. Just like the norm of the man being the bread winner, things change. Gender roles are slowly diminishing. It is OK to have a women propose. If a women wants the man to propose, kudos to that. If a women wants to take initiative and propose first, by all means do not hesitate. Moreover, people shouldn't feel threatened by the idea of women proposing.
I guess this is a controversial post and it seems like the guys above don't really support the idea. But from a woman's point of view, I concede with your notion that it is fine in our time to propose to a guy. I even think that it is a hallmark of a young modern woman that is willing to unlock social stereotypes to pursue her happiness.
ReplyDeleteIn a way, we are making a further progress into gender equality. In the past and still in some parts of the world today, women are always submissive to gender norms and men domination. A word from their parents could easily determine where and with who they spend their whole life with. In some families, marriages are often built upon pragmatic needs such as business alliance. All these cases deprived women of their right to decide their own path ahead. I think it is time for women to do something to show the society that they can be initiator and take charge of their own life. I guess it is not the act of proposing to the guy that is so significant, but the idea that we are breaking out of our socially-constructed boundaries that counts.
And yes, the media plays a huge role in shaping the belief of man-to-woman proposal. Candle light dinner, 99 roses, red wine, guy playing violin/saxophone and a diamond ring---are these are enough for a woman to level the romantic atmosphere. Since guys do earn more money and are suppose to be gentlemen, it is their job to create that scene. This is a privilege that woman do get to enjoy and i think all women deserve that because it'll likely only be once in your lifetime! So while we girls open up ourselves to proposing to a guy, think about whether you want to give up that privilege!
Fantastic engaging post! I respect your opinion about how you think it’s ok for a woman to propose to man. From a male’s perspective, I am going to have to disagree with you. I would never let a female propose to me! A man proposing to a female is one of those sacred traditions that should never be violated. Like you mentioned in your post, you never see woman proposing to men in popular culture and media. It’s always vice-versa.
ReplyDeleteIf a female feels the need to propose to a man, she should take a step back and rethink. Instead of proposing, what’s wrong with asking the man if he thinks their relationship will go to the next level? Men aren’t idiots, if they see the female is hinting at being ready for marriage they will pounce on it and propose.
If you think about it from a female’s perspective, it shows weakness and insecurity. You don’t want to be that girl that had to propose to her man! Being proposed to is one of the most special moments of a female’s life, don’t ruin the process. This has nothing to do with woman rights and everything to do with tradition.
From a woman’s rights perspective, there have been a lot of unacceptable social norms from the past that have grown on society. Woman proposing to men isn’t one of them. For the time being, it’s just not right. Just like the past, men are still expected to propose to a female. I have a hard time imagining this changing in the near future.
Linda,
ReplyDeleteYour post raises some good points and makes us think about gender roles in a situation so popular and traditional. To answer your question, “Is it socially acceptable for women to propose to men?” -- yes, I do believe it is socially acceptable for women to propose to men. However, I would personally not feel comfortable proposing to my future husband and would like him to propose to me. Just like your story of your sister and your neighbor proposing to her, I’ve always grown up to believe a man should always be the one to get down on one knee, open that ring box, and ask for his fiance to “make him to happiest man in the world.” I remember watching the first season of ABC’s “The Bachelorette when I was younger (age 11, I think). And that entire season, I thought that the girl was going to be the one to propose to whatever guy she chose, and I thought it was the most bizarre thing. After watching the season finale, I was relieved to find out that it is the guy who proposes. Now that I’m older and have a more broad sense of how society works and is changing, I wouldn’t be phased if I saw a girl propose to a guy on national television. On the other hand, I think I can see why some males wouldn’t be okay with being proposed to. It strips them of their masculine identity that they’ve grown to embrace, and they, too, have grown up to think they should be the ones to propose to a girl. Either way a proposal goes, it’s as equally beautiful, and if the love is there, then congratulations!
I believe, in our society today, it is becoming a great deal more acceptable for women to propose to men, but not in the traditional sense. As mentioned by my classmates, instances like The Bachelorette or even your parent’s case, where your mother brought up the idea to your father, are not uncommon circumstances, or even seen as odd. In fact, it is extremely common that couples talk about marriage before a proposal is made. The majority of couples live together for years before they get engaged, giving women a more equal opportunity to bring up the idea or marriage, or for a couple to make a joint decision about taking that next step in their relationship. However, I believe a great deal in chivalry, and personally, I would never want to be the one to propose. Maybe it is how society has structured me as women, but I personally feel like an engagement is not official until then man proposes. Many of my male friends have also expressed the idea that they would not like women to propose officially. A good friend of mine’s father was proposed to on leap year, an Irish tradition that women are allowed to propose to men each time it occurs. He expressed great disturbance in this occurrence of his life, and though it was deemed as “acceptable” it still seemed “wrong” to him. Though it seems that our society is becoming more tolerant of the idea of women proposing to a man, I believe it will never be truly accepted in society for a women to get down on one knee, pull out a diamond ring, and to propose to a man.
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