The reason
for college has always been an idea in the back of my mind, and Menand’s “Live
and Learn” brought those reasons to surface. All three theories have good
intentions with their ideas, but Theory 2 stuck more than the others. Mostly
because it emphasized true learning rather than grades. Knowledge is what
inspires people to pursue goals, not the B you got on whatever paper for the
one class last semester.
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| Studying hard is always encouraged and of course beneficial, but grading is what makes concept of learning obscure. |
After
reading Socrates Defense it is quite clear that he has major issues. But he
brings up a good point that relates back to the democratic Theory 2 of Menand.
(Yes we are writing a paper on this right now) He mentions nothing about
grades, just that he believes the way to better oneself is to acquire as much
knowledge as possible.
So here
we are at the University of Michigan. We worked to the best of our potential
and beyond throughout high school in order to receive the homework grades and
standardized test scores needed to be accepted into the University. All of those
late nights filled with studying and cramming for tests finally paid off. Now we
continue this long and grueling process of beating ourselves up for a higher
grade. If all students are thinking about is their grades, how much of the
material studied is actually absorbed for use in the future? What you learn now
can be used to your advantage later on.
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| Discouraging grades |
Grades
put an unnecessary stress on the learning environment. We aren’t learning to
learn, we are learning for the grade. The lower the grade, the higher chance of
being discouraged from that subject. Many of us come into the college world
with Menand’s Theory 1 in our heads. We already know what we want to do with
our lives, so we are going to proceed to push ourselves for the grades needed
to achieve this specific career goal. But when we do this, we are leaving out a
plethora of other subjects we could be educated in.
As
college students we have so many opportunities to expand our horizons and gain
knowledge. Investing all of your energy into raising your grade will make you
miss out on exploring a variety of subjects. For example you could join an
extracurricular club or group. You could take a class that isn’t exactly within
your field of interest like an art class if you’re a bio-chemistry major. Or
maybe you try a different language just for the experience. We need to use college
to our advantage instead of fretting over the abstract grading system.
Instead
of college being preparation for a career, it should be a time for us to
explore our interests and learn as much as we can. If students do this, then
they can find what career will truly fit them. It is better to always be in
pursuit of knowledge as Socrates advocates for rather than solely concerned
with the grades someone gives us. We will become more knowledgable through exploring the subjects as described by Mendad's Theory 2. This will benefit our being in the long run,
and could become useful in our adult lives post college.
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| Absorb your college education while you can! (before you graduate) |
Sloane, I completely agree with what you have to say regarding college as a place to explore our interests rather than as preparation for a career. College should be a place to take as many classes in as many diverse fields as possible! Why shouldn’t a schedule consist of a history class, a Japanese course, and an organic chemistry lab? It’s a little alarming that eighteen year-old freshmen are being pushed into taking the right classes for the right major for the right career - we just got out of high school! If anything, college should be a means of exploring the unknown.
ReplyDeleteHowever, that is obviously not the reality. Michigan’s an extremely competitive school, and let’s face it - we were all top students at our high schools and now we’re all vying for top grades here. These grades, which we all so desire, are the driving force behind college for most of us: they grant us entrance into top graduate and professional schools, assure us a dream job with a high salary.
I’ll admit, I’ve definitely fallen victim to the battle for As - I feel that I’m definitely more concerned with receiving good grades than with actually learning something. Rather than constantly freaking out about doing well on papers and exams, it would be nice to just appreciate the fact that I’m at one of the best universities in the world learning some truly interesting things. All in all, though the competition here is fierce, we should all recognize that we’re here not to compete, but simply to learn.
This is a very interesting post Sloane Forbush because I too was thinking about the same idea of college. I was talking to my cousin who is currently in med school pursuing a career as a heart surgeon. He tells me about all the stress he is going through, which is leading him to depression. Since he is a minority it pressure is also adding on him competing with his dominately white. He says that if he do his undergrades over again he would have taken a different field, because he realizes now he doesn't wven want to study medicine anymore, but its too late to change now. He is always encouraging me to take classes that I would not never think to take to see if there is other interests I have. He doesn't want me to go to school for over 8 years and end up having a 3.7gpa, but dread going to class for something he is not interested in.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a complicated issue in that, while many students at the University of Michigan are motivated by their genuine love of learning and desire for success in the real world, many students at the thousands of other collegiate institutions across the country do not share this same drive. Following high school, most students are driven into post-secondary undergraduate education by societal norms rather than their academic interests. Without graded assessments, a student could easily enroll in college, sparingly attend classes, neglect assigned readings, and would still become a college graduate. They could completely lack the capability of being a productive employee, and still posses the same credential we are granted when we leave this university. Without grades, employers have no way of differentiating between a passionate student from a disinterested one. You being a superior student could then potentially lose jobs that you could make a more profound difference in. I agree that grades distract from the true value of education as we prioritize short term memorization of terms over a deeper understanding of concepts. In addition, grades are not always a fair representation of a student’s effort: bad teachers, difficult periods in our lives, and required classes in subjects that are not our strength negatively affect our grades and subsequently undervalue our future potential in the workforce. However, I feel they are an necessary component of our educations as we compete for the proportionally limited number of careers available to college graduates.
ReplyDeleteGrades definitely matter in high school. Most high schools rely heavily on grades, in that every single itty bitty assignment is graded. I agree with you, Mariah, the social norm is that students are pushed to earn undergraduate degrees and grading is essential. Acceptance into undgraduate programs relies heavily on a student's high school grades. I personally believe that only high school should be based off Menard's first theory. Students are competing for acceptance into top universities, which, I believe, is what truly determines educational and career paths. A high school GPA shows students’ academic potential in the higher education system. I feel like, though, once you are attending a college or university, grades shouldn’t matter. The grades you received in high school brought you to where you are; whether it’s a community college or an Ivy League University. Once in college, students should be able to expand their studies and find their personal interests. Like in theory two, the focus should be what you learn, not your ability. High school was competitive enough, I wish universities would not be so competitive (which we all know isn’t the case). Besides, I don’t really think that employers are looking at the GPA you earned in college, they are just looking for a notable degree.
DeleteI completely agree that a system like this would be more effective in educating students and allowing them to find their true interests. I hope that one day it will be attainable. The greatest barrier to this system to me, is how heavily financial pay a role in college education. The out-of-state tuition at the University of Michigan (which rose to over $51,000 last year) exceeds the average household YEARLY income in the United States. It is simply not a possibility for most students to attend prestigious universities and develop their interests and still earn a degree that employers will respect. GPA provides an opportunity for impoverished students to prove their effort in and interest towards academics and their own future where their income has disadvantaged them thus far.
DeleteThis is a very interesting post Sloane. I completely agree with your relation to Socrates and student at the University of Michigan. I feel that grades are essential in high school but in college its a little different. My father and many others suggest that I explore and new field of classes in college that I did in high school. I want to explore new classes that I was not able to take in high school. I think college is more for exploration than a grade. Receiving a degree is most important and maybe your grades in college can influence which school you are in at the UM. I also feel that when one is applying for a job, they are looking at your degree and where it is from versus how well one did at that University or what they were ranked in there class. All of that stuff doesn't matter. Finding yourself and discovering who you are as a person is most important. For some people, college is a first time away from parents and for others it is not. It depends how you react in college situations rather than the grades one receives. The degree itself is essential.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the best theory is theory two. It is the most ideal theory, and it is the most beneficial to us students. It is the only theory that encourages us to learn about the material that is taught to us. It is not about going through the motions to get the degree we want. Theory 1 is has more to do with short-term retention to get a good grade, to get the job we want, and to be where we want in life.
ReplyDeleteAlthough theory 2 is very ideal and if students could all learn like this our society would be much better off. We would have a high level of education across the board. Unfortunately I feel that this is almost impossible to achieve. I think that theory 1 is they way we learn, and I believe that it is hard to change that.
Students will go through loops and cut corners to be where they need to be. I would be lying to you if I said I didn’t cut corners to be were I am today. There have been several times that I did not fully learn the information that was taught to me, I just memorized it for the test, to get the A then I forgot all about it. I feel that a lot of students are this way. The whole goal of going to college is to inevitably get the job we want.
If we lived by theory 2, we would be better off. But I think it is impossible for students to do. I think grades go along with theory 1. We do tend to shy away from classes that we get a bad grade in. However it is a way to measure if we understand it or not, even though we may not “be learning the material.” I think grades are necessary, because it is impossible to live by theory 2. It is against student’s natural instinct to not just do what they need to do to succeed. It may be wrong and not useful but it’s the way our society works.
I understand your point that it is impossible to live by theory 2 but that doesn't mean that we can't try. I agree that in the end we are at college to pursue a career afterwards but my point is that we should be using college to find out what we will end up pursuing. Many people when they get to college in their freshman year think that they already know what they want to do, so they take the required classes and push themselves for the grades needed to graduate. I know this from personal experience with friends and family. If college was based more around theory 2, students could explore more before settling with a career.
DeleteI think you are right in saying that grades are a way of measuring our understanding of a topic, but only to a certain degree. I guess it just depends on what class. For example, in math everything is very straightforward and there is a clear right and wrong answer. But when writing an argumentative paper you are writing as if your opinion is the right one. It's a matter of interpretation and grades obscure this. Your grade in a class might not reflect how much effort you put into it. Grades are the reason for stress and pressure in the academic world and if we were relieved of the stress it would be easier to learn things. But I still respect your position.
I agree that Theory 2 should be the way our society operates. A student choosing to go to college, and furthermore go to a prestigious university, is a great achievement in itself. One should not have to worry about the competition of others, rather, one should focus on his or her own goals in life. We are all competing for the jobs we want, and I think we fail to see that having a degree from the University of Michigan is a huge accomplishment in itself. Many of us go through the routine of cramming information into our brains that we don’t find interesting, just to fulfill a requirement and get the “A” we all strive for. I believe we worry so much about our grades that we miss out on enjoying the material we are learning.
ReplyDeleteFrom my own experience, I am in a Spanish class were homework and test grades make up a large portion of the final grade you receive in the class. Although this ensures that we learn the material given to us, it does not help me become better at speaking Spanish, which is my ultimate goal. Yes, I’ve learned more about the history of Spain, but I haven’t learned the skills to speak about it more effectively. I believe that real-world settings for classrooms prepare us for our future careers, and this type of setting correlates best with Theory 2.
This blog post also made me remember something my dad mentioned to me. He recalled that when he was in college, one would take five classes for three credits each. This gave students the opportunity to fulfill their degree requirements and still have room to take classes that interested them. To him, that fifth class is essential to making a person well-rounded. With four classes (for four credits each), we have fewer opportunities to take classes that interest us but that are not related to our major. I believe we are so focused on obtaining those high grades that we lose the curiosity for knowledge that we all have within us.
It is interesting how different our experiences in our spanish classes are at this university. I definitely agree with you that real world settings for classrooms prepare us for our future careers. In my spanish class we only speak in spanish, and we are required to speak spanish with partners for majority of the class. Participation, tests, and homework count for the majority of our grade. Engaging with my partners through spanish is considered participation. Because most of the class we are speaking spanish I feel I have learned so much more about the language and how to have a fluent conversation. Comparing this to high school where I just did the busy work assignments to get through it, spanish has definitely changed in college. I think that my spanish class is a good example of learning to absorb the information rather than focus on the grade. Also in this case if I do engage and practice the language in class, it ends up improving my grade. My point being that if we always choose to engage in the material in our classes, we can help our grade while learning simultaneously.
DeleteIt's also interesting how courses and credit hours have changed over the years between the generations of our parents and our generation. I completely agree that four, four credit classes is not enough. Especially because freshman year we are trying to find out interests and four classes doesn't provide enough variety for us to find our niche. Also the four classes we are taking now are most likely just pre reqs we are trying to get out of the way. I know that in my personal experience I only have three classes because I dropped one. I feel even less sure about what I want to do and I keep hearing about classes that I feel like I'm missing out on. I agree with we had 5, 3 credit classes each we would be more well rounded and have a better opportunity to explore out interests.
Sloane,
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with many points brought up in your post. When you wrote, “The lower the grade, the higher chance of being discouraged from that subject,” I could relate to that, and it’s not a fun feeling, but it’s that well-roundedness that students have -- and are still trying to perfect -- that helps them pick up the pieces, recover, and be more determined to improve themselves. I think Menand’s second theory is the most logical and what all students hope to be, and I agree with it. There’s no such thing as the perfect college student. One person alone cannot define what the ideal student is, since different things work for different people, and there are so many things students do that are successful. Grades are something that should be of high priority in a student’s life, but, yes, there should be more than solely achieving high grades. Students need to balance academics with fun, before we all go insane from studying and insomnia. Only having high grades can get you places, but it might not let you go everywhere. Experience from extra-curricular activities, volunteering, and possessing good speaking skills and people skills are valuable and things people can recognize and appreciate on the surface. It’s tough going to such a competitive school, where grades are at the top of everyone’s priority list, so I can see where some students will disagree with Menand’s second theory and support his first theory. But our school has a lot to offer its students, and as hard workers, it seems pretty easy to be more than just an academically talented student. I’m obviously giving a biased response. This topic is a broad one that can be discussed for days, but you did a good job covering it in one post!
One thing that could be further explored in your analysis of why we pursue good grades is what the life-applicable purpose of learning in our current university structure really is. I believe that the purpose of studying in school, taking different types classes, and doing well in them is the pursuit of getting a good grade. The purpose of education in my opinion is to teach you to think in different frames of mind in all types of situations; acquiring the abilities it takes to succeed in a certain "environment," not necessarily in a certain subject. For example, one might take a math class to learn how to do calculus. Twenty years from now, that person most likely will have never directly enlisted the abilities of the formula they memorized the night before their exam. However, the skills it takes to be successful in a math class - being able to recognize situations, being able to plug in variables, and being able to execute a plan - are likely used every day, and the action of learning how to do this in a math context is essentially conditioning your brain to be able to do it in other contexts, even if you don't realize it. This topic could be discussed for days, and yes, it is very debatable.
ReplyDeleteI am totally with you on this one on how grades put an unnecessary stress on the learning environment and that you should learn to retain information, not learn for just tests. I am a freshman and am constantly worried about completing 200 pages worth of textbook readings, finishing my essays on time and having time to study for my exams; but this is college and what I expected. I am taking some classes that I am interested in but really had to take others because of certain requirements. This makes me think should the area distribution requirements (a certain amount of humanities, social science etc. classes) be changed? Should there even be any requirements? I would love to take the classes I want and try different languages and something my major doesn't consist of, especially my freshman year. When I was making my schedule with my advisor he said I HAD to take certain classes, even if I didn't want to. Then again, without requirements, some students might only take classes involved in their major and would never explore the other subjects. So I guess they’re pros and cons to the certain class requirements we need. Furthermore, this is an extremely complicated issue. After I read, “Live and Learn” I knew right away that I believed in Theory 2. But if students didn't focus on grades and only explored different subjects, I feel like the University of Michigan and many other top colleges wouldn't be known as superior academic schools.
ReplyDeleteSloan,
ReplyDeleteThis is a very interesting blog post and i am thrilled that i was able to stumble upon it as i was looking back in the archive of blog posts. I could not agree with you more that most students come into college the idea of only focus on the grades and not the knowledge that can be learned from a specific course. This resonates very closely with the firs theory of education as presented by Louis Menand. Unfortunately, many students are bombarded with the unnecessary pressure of receiving an A in every class that it creates an environment in which learning is not even apart of the equation. Not particularly ideal for a college setting. You talk about how college should not be considered as prep for a future career or occupation, but rather a place to explore and grow our own interests. While i completely agree with you, i have to say that i have not had the opportunity to do so, so far in my freshman year. Particular schools within Michigan require applicants of the specific schools to take certain pre recs, unfortunately taking up tons of space in ones schedule. I am applying to the Ross School of Business and my schedule is filled with classes like Econ, Calc and others that i am being forced to take. Ultimately, i do want to pursue a career in business/finance but i would love to have the space in my schedule to take a course where im more concerned with learning new and interesting material than worrying about a grade.